Madison’s question(s) to Matthew: Do you think that working for 12 years in a bank has helped you in your role as a pastor? What are your thoughts on people starting in full-time ministry right away versus having another career beforehand?

There are many ways for me to answer the first question. The first, and simplest answer to this question is yes. How is this so?

First, I am able to relate to a variety people, (particularly to those in management roles and business owners), in ways that perhaps others could not. In my banking career, I had bottom-line financial responsibilities, targets that I had to meet. I had to design strategies, get business cases approved, develop marketing campaigns and then report on the results I said that we were going to achieve. As a result, I appreciate the pressures that they face and I can enter into their world trusting that I am able to bring a Christ-centred perspective into their situations.

Second, with the size of the church I serve in, the skills I learned in my banking career are utilized and I am able to add value that others could not. The bank paid for my training that is now fully used for the sake of a local church. Interestingly, I have been told by those that serve on our finance team that I am able to “get it” fairly quickly.

Third, I developed the rigor of accountability as well as a broad view of how things can work. The world of “church” can be quite narrow. All you have to do is look at the many conferences that are offered and it is often the same key speakers that headline them. There is a specific way of seeing the world that may limit what is possible. Additionally, I have encountered many people who work in churches that don’t have a proper sense of what they are to accomplish and are also not held accountable for what they have been set aside to do. I recognize that accountability can be taken too far and that in the church we can count “external stuff” and fail to see the internal life change that is taking place. And yet we need to make sure that those who have been “hired” for work in a church are actually doing the work. My banking career was rigorous in teaching me this.

But on the flip side, the answer is also no.

My business and marketing training and development is also a specific way of seeing the world and I can forget that there is a spiritual realm that I simply can’t control. My skills are useful for my church context but would be completely irrelevant to some degree if I was pastoring in a church of 100. And my accountability to performance can cause me to miss the inner growth of someone as they suffer through pain or wrestle with who God is and what he is developing in them.

My journey is my journey. I believe that God is orchestrating something in and through me. I don’t understand all of the nuances, yet I am trusting that he has put in me what I need for this season of my life. And, if he has another place for me going forward, I will assume that my season as a pastor has been another piece of the puzzle for what God has for me next.

So, what are my thoughts on people starting in full-time ministry right away versus having another career first?

I think my last statement says it all. I don’t believe that there is any one way that is better than others. God is the one who is planning the course. Proverbs 16:9 “We can make our plans, but the Lord determines our steps.” (NLT) “In their hearts humans plan their course, but the Lord establishes their steps.” (NIV) “We plan the way we want to live, but only God makes us able to live it.” (Message)

I believe that we all need to move ahead with a humble confidence. If you believe that “paid” ministry is your next step, then take it, and do it with all of your energy. And yet, always be aware of the reasons you are doing it. Is it because you are afraid of “secular” work (if there really is such a thing for a follower of Jesus)? Not a good reason. Is it because no one else would hire you but the church had a spot and they couldn’t find someone with the real skill set they needed? Not a good reason. Is it because you believe that working at a local church is “more spiritual” and thus work of a higher calling? Not a good reason.

God is at work. His story is playing out across the world and over time. He invites us into that story. Yet we must always be willing to play the part that he has for us. In my experience, so few people actually spend the time to reflect on this. Certainly, some do it when life throws them a curve, when they lose their job, when a relationship goes sour, when sickness causes a change in lifestyle. But not many reflect on life regularly and ask God to reveal any course changes for their life.

Some will be called into ministry at a young age and be involved in this work for 40-50 years. Others will hear the voice of God at age 40 and make a significant life change. It can all be the right choice for that particular person. Let God’s story play out in your life.

For the kingdom.

We all have things that we are passionate about and would love to spend all of our time on. What’s yours and how did you discover it?

The question of passion is an interesting one to ponder. There are things that I really like – dark chocolate covered almonds, ribs on the bbq, jazz music – and there are things that I really like to do – biking along the Thames River, exploring downtowns of cities – but I wouldn’t want to categorize them as passions.

Many people I know would say that they are passionate about a certain hobby, they can lose themselves in it for hours at a time and this is good. Often times they use these hobbies to bless others – I love seeing this take place.

But when Madison asked me about what I am passionate about, I had little difficulty in bringing to mind what “floats my boat” as the saying goes.

Now, before I state this passion, I want to set it up as not trying to sound “holier than though”, or that I am trying to “give the right answer”, after all, I am a pastor by occupation so perhaps there is an expectation that I’ll give a certain answer to “look the part.”

I have been honing this passion for decades, maybe without even realizing it, and it is only in the past few years that I have truly been able to fully state that it is a passion. It is something that I believe I’ll engage in until the day I move on from this life into the next.

Interestingly, I can live out this passion as a key component of my job which makes it all the more meaningful for me – I get paid to do what I am passionate about; it may be difficult to get me to retire:)

So, what is it?

I am passionate about helping other people find what they are passionate about. Finding out what they were designed to do. Moving to a place of congruency in their lives so that their skills and interests and experience all align.

Does this sound strange? Even as I write it, I’m wondering if this is supposed to be the answer? And yet, I love it. How do I know this is a passion?

1) I have many conversations about it.

I had breakfast with someone this week, and guess what? I guided the conversation into a discussion about his job, what he likes about it, what is difficult, what God may be teaching him in all of it and where it could be leading him. In essence, moving into his area of passion. It was meaningful, for him and for me.

This week, I had my regular Wednesday morning gathering with 3 other guys. The discussion moved into a conversation about where God may be leading them, what passions he has put into them. The glass board in my office was full of diagrams, outlining how they could begin to envision what their future could look like as they embraced God’s design for their lives.

2) I like to read about it.

Call it strange, but instead of a novel, I gravitate to books on mentoring and guiding others in life. Books that help me to help others on their life journey. These books are about helping people build good foundations so that they can enter into their God-given passions.

3) I am told that I do it.

These comments have been made to me more frequently in the past few years. With people I speak with at our church, I am often finding out about them, what they enjoy, what skills they have, how their experiences have shaped them. And then, when I see an opportunity come up at our church or another place in London to serve or a new job that I believe would fit them, I am excited to present the opportunity. Interestingly, I now have people come to me asking who I might know who would fit into a specific volunteer area of service. I thought that everyone does this, however, what I’m learning is that this is a passion of mine that doesn’t necessarily connect with others.

4) I get excited when I see someone experience living in their area of passion

When I speak with someone who just loves what they are doing, I am excited for them. When I am able to help someone move into an area of gifting and passion, to watch from afar how this has given them a new sense of purpose, it makes my heart leap.

I love the scripture 1 Corinthians 12. “There is one body, but it has many parts. But all its parts make up one body.” I have seen too many people moving through life without any thought to how they have been designed. They take on responsibilities because it is the thing to do. But they are missing out on so much. God has designed us all in unique ways. Why would we not want to live into those areas of life that are uniquely made for us?

So, I will continue to be passionate about helping people find their passions. The question is – what are you passionate about?

For the kingdom.